Martin: That's
right, by the way, concerning the more experimental songs. The
album is going to be released in two editions, whereas the limited
edition does not only contain bonus tracks but also features
a different order of the songs. That's quite uncommon. Was that
your idea?
Steve: Most of these ideas are technically marketing-driven.
Originally, we weren't going to do a special edition, we were
going to do one long edition. The shops in England wanted to
be able to challenge the kids, which we considered to be a reduced
price, so we did a reduced version of the album. It depends
what you consider to be extended or reduced or standard or special
edition, it's just semantic, the use of words.
Martin: Actually,
the promotional copy we received from your label also is the
reduced one, so I only know the opener A Dark Night In Toytown
and not Transilvanian Express.
Steve: Alright, okay, sorry about that. That's not
the way I designed it, anyway.
Martin: Oh,
okay. How would you describe the album to someone who has never
listened to any of your releases? That's maybe a very difficult
question.
Steve: I think that if you're tired of rock and roll
because it's got a limited glossary of terms, and you think
that orchestras on their own are too elitist or frumpy and don't
speak to young people, and then somewhere between the two, this
album might appeal to you.
Martin: That's
very nice. Some people claim that Wild Orchids goes
a little back to the roots, back to your first solo albums.
Do you share this opinion in a way?
Steve: Well I think that, as I say, the thing about
experiment is that it's entirely possible to present music in
a very new way to people, but unless they've got fixed points
of reference, I think that it becomes harder to be able to tell
what I'm trying to do. I mean, that for instance… one
of the tracks, Down Street...
Martin: Yes,
I wanted to go into detail about this track later, because I
think it's one of the most fascinating tracks on the album...
Steve: ...and the moment that I think is most interesting
on the track is where you hear this sort-of distant rumble which
sounds like a subway or a tube train and then you realize that
it's actually drums. And it comes into focus more... Well, I'm
thinking of using this idea much more in the future, where the
basic instrumentation is impossible to discern, but have things
come forward on the top of it. Now I expect on one level, to
someone who's talking about the virtues of clarity, this sort
of idea is not necessarily going to appeal to them, but, you
know, I think to a degree, you've got to take something away
to bring something new to the story. So, I'll be doing things
a little bit more radical in this sort of way in the future.
The idea of “distant music” as opposed to “present
music”.
Martin: Concerning
your relation to your own music – do you have a favorite
track on the album? Is there anything which touches you most?
Steve: Well, I think, you know – for all different
reasons there are lots of different things. On a primal, sort
of gut-reaching level, I think it's probably the track called
Howl. It's the one that sounds, as I think, like the
biggest trio I've ever heard in my life. It's a very big trio.
Martin: Well,
from my point of view, as I already told, probably the most
interesting track on the CD is Down Street, which is amazingly
oppressive...
Steve: ...oppressive! Yes!
Martin: …and it has one of best narrative
parts that I've ever encountered in rock music!
Steve: Oh, that's good.
Martin: I wanted to ask you about the background
of the song. Well, I know that Down Street is a shut-down subway
station in London, which explains the gloomy atmosphere of the
song. First off, is your deep voice on this track generated
in a natural way?
Steve: No, it is not. Actually, what I think
we did was using formant shifting to make it like that. It was
either that or it was a harmonizer; I can't remember which way
we did it. I think what I was doing was listening to it on headphones
with a harmonizer, and I suspect what happens then is that we
formatted it to assure we get the same effect but with a higher
resolution and better quality. So no, that is not my natural
voice; it is pitched as I'm quite a bit higher than that. At
least sometimes in the morning I sound a little like that.
Martin: Alright,
how did you get the idea of writing this song?
Steve: Well, I've been reading a lot of books about
“Underground London” and the kind of vocal characterization
I've used on that is a style I've used on one or two other things
in the past. But, you know, this is an idea of painting a sort-of
subconscious underbelly of London, a city which works in a predatorily
kind of way, where rivers are paved over and streams are removed,
and on top of all is nature, which is still going on underneath
the surface. Mankind is decimated as it progresses. I'm not
saying that it is an ecological look at the whole thing; it's
really almost the influence of Charles Dickens who tended to
write about Victorian London at its most bleak. He tended to
write in terms of caricatures rather than character portraits,
and it's not really a story, it's a collection of different
stories and a collection of different takes on what is most
spooky and frightening about what is underneath London. It's
a subterranean journey, in a way.
Martin: This reminds me somehow of a book by
Neil Gaiman, called Neverwhere, which is also highly recommendable.
Steve: Yeah, there are many books on that which
I've read, there's also an interesting one about the Necropolis
Railway. You know, the idea of trains and this Necropolis Railway
thing, I've always been fascinated by train imagery and I'm
always using this in the albums, you know, Transilvanian
Express and the idea of a Necropolis Railway. And in the
past I've used train imagery with the Golden Age Of Steam
and some other thinks like Overnight Sleeper from
the days in the early 80s. But it's a theme that I come back
to all the time; I find trains and music tempting.
Martin: Looks
like you're truly fascinated by trains...
Steve: Yeah, I'm going to release a whole album which
is full of train music. I think one day all my train songs will
get together.
Martin: By
the way, talking about Down Street again – it
sounds a bit like a “Film Noir” soundtrack.
Steve: Yes...
Martin: Have you ever thought about composing
an orchestral movie score or a soundtrack? It would probably
be amazing if you did.
Steve: Well, you know, it's a funny thing,
as I can provide soundtracks and these things, but I think of
them as a kind of “film to the ear” rather than
“to the eye”. And so, in a way, as it becomes this
filmic kind of journey, one scene after another, it does not
rely on the camera lens. It's working in another way, I mean,
I always felt that music was supremely visual, especially instrumental
music, as it just allows you just with the idea of the title
perhaps to get the idea of something which might be a bit of
a dance, but it brings in so many other elements – and
film, wonderful though it is, and I'm a tremendous fan of lots
of film makers, it would be silly to say that I wasn't. At the
same time, I remember lots of music that I heard many years
ago, particularly classical music, which always conveyed pictures
to me. So I try to take that idea of music as narrative, as
story, and it's like “All aboard for the journey!”.
I noticed that people do like the idea of the kind of musical
travelogues, so I've been romanticizing places and times and
I get the feeling that music always operates like a time capsule
or a time machine where you can move geographically and you
are not limited by time and space. It's almost as if it's time
out of life, really.
Martin: Ah,
I understand what you mean. By the way, the new album features
complex instrumentation. Are you going to perform alternate
versions of some of the tracks on your forthcoming acoustic
tour?
Steve: I'll be doing what a trio does best on the acoustic
tour. I'm not trying to reproduce something which is a whole
symphony orchestra's worth. You know, people are expecting that
I'm gonna do a depiction of the album, I think maybe they expect
me to sit there with a guitar and a tape recorder and everything
is on sample, but, you know, when I go out with the acoustic
trio, we do the stuff which best suits the acoustic guitar,
acoustic flute and keyboards, so we're like a little kind of
chamber orchestra. I'm not gonna be trying to do anything that's
on the album, a guitar piece perhaps, but it's not really a
tour that's there to promote the album. It's just for the fun
of playing live. Sometimes we make albums out of what we play
live and it's completely different from the start of it –
but definitely the stuff is on this album.
Martin: Well,
we're definitely looking forward to it.
Steve: I hope to be back next year doing stuff with
a larger band, so I can do some of this bulk stuff.
Martin: Okay,
now to some more general questions. You've been in the business
for about 35 years now. As your own music is completely different
from what you did in the past, do you personally still listen
to bands performing something like “modern descendants”
of “70s progressive rock”? What are your favorite
bands nowadays?
Steve: Probably I listen less to modern progressive
stuff than you would imagine. I'm more prone to listening to
Jazz and classical stuff these days.
Martin: So you're not too much into bands like,
for example, Porcupine Tree, or whatever?
Steve: Well, I think they're very fine and
very good. You know, I'm very well aware of these bands, for
example IQ and the Mars Volta and others, but I suspect that
most progressive bands these days are very concerned with the
punctuation that accompanied progressive music, where personally
I've always been much more interested in statements than in
punctuation. So, you know, my approach to music is very different,
I'm looking for harmony all the time. I'm not always looking
for stabs; I'm not always looking for time signatures. I assume
that any drummer works hard to play a number of different time
signatures, but it's a difference between what's virtuosic and
perhaps what a composer can come up with. I know that makes
me sound very serious and very crusty and a difficult bastard,
but I'm looking for a good tune all the time, either a good
tune or a good ride – as the orchestra comes in and there
is this very good ride, you know, it's taking me off on this
journey towards what I want to happen. And I know these bands
try to do that, but, you know, bands have always got a lead
singer, usually, I mean, even like me, when I'm singing, and
sometimes this can be a limitation, of course, because it's
like: “We all wanna fall in love with the singer!”
or “We all want to sleep with the singer!” - well,
do we? Well, can we romanticize the music, can we make it non-personal,
can we say that, for example, the Berlin philharmonic can play
this music and the Leningrad symphony orchestra can play it,
too, and it's not dependent on how “cute” the singer
looks. I just hope it's gonna grow up. I hope that the audiences
will grow up in the same way and assess the music for its quality
and maybe not confuse the singer and the song too much. It's
all about separating it out, really. Otherwise it will always
be like “I've got to buy this girl's records because she
has great legs!”
Martin: I
think that it's already a bit like this in the progressive scene;
as their singers usually don't look good enough, for example,
to attract the girls...
Steve: And “the” new bands are also coming
of age. I think progressive music doesn't really attract women
most of the time; there are too many notes in it, that's the
trouble with it. Women like an old, simple song most of the
time. But then again, you see, I'm joking here, really. I know
that there are discerning women out there who enjoy lots of
different other things, but as a man, I think that the kind
of music you're talking about is something that boys and men
are much more interested in. I don't know why it is...
Martin: Maybe because of the competition, the
highly technical solo work...
Steve: The funny thing is that Jazz seems to
appeal much more to a cross-sexual and balanced audience and
I think classical as well, but when it comes to rock, suddenly
it is more like supporting your favorite football team, isn't
it?
Martin: Like “The faster the guitar player,
the bigger the car”?
Steve: That's right, yes, exactly!
Martin: ...which
leads me to another question: Is there still anything truly
progressive out there or is “progressive” just a
phrase to describe the kind of music which evolved in the late
60s and 70s?
Steve: I think it was a German guy who came up with
the expression “progressive” first of all. It was
Richard Strauss who invented the term “progressive music”
in the early 1900 when he was talking about the music of Edward
Elgar, and he was talking specifically about a piece of music
called Dream of Geronteus which I think was premiered in either
Dortmund or Düsseldorf, it begins with a “D”
I think. He describes the music of Elgar as progressive. I've
heard the word progressive used with 1950s Jazz, I've heard
it to describe the kind of music Cream was doing, I've heard
it used with Genesis, Radiohead, Mars Volta, Porcupine Tree,
IQ and massive more bands, but obviously there is a difference
between the way all these people work.... Miles Davis, Jimi
Hendrix... what's progressive? Is something progressive because
it becomes progressively more atonal? Or is it progressive because
the musician tries to find his way through it? A long solo or
something? The progression just goes round and round, it's like
someone swims in this sea of rhythms... you see, I'm looking
for definitions myself.
Martin: So
you wouldn't call a band “progressive” who still
make music in the style of the old Genesis, for example?
Steve: Well, it depends... No, there's nothing wrong
with having heroes, in fact that in the end of days is what
you bring to music yourself. It's very hard for me to be as
taken with music these days as when I saw a little booze band
playing in my teens. Maybe I just want more from music now,
you know, you get jaded and I suppose you get less forgiving.
I went down to a few brilliant individuals who came up with
really great stuff all the time. I've always been into the work
of Tchaikovsky and Bach and many other people who were fantastic
masters of orchestration and melody. You know, people whose
journeys I've undertaken with them. I've recorded six pieces
of Bach recently, all of which were very difficult to get my
fingers around, but some beautiful, beautiful elegant music.
And then, you know, in my orchestral model... Tchaikovsky, of
course, the romantic use of orchestra and passionate stuff.
And Reval, of course, fantastic work of “Pictures of an
Exhibition”, piano music taken over from Mussorgsky and
given the wide-screen treatment so successfully. I marvel that,
I mention composers probably much more than pop people. Although,
I have to say, Joni Mitchell who has re-recorded a lot of her
early work with orchestrations and done it really, really well.
A friend of mine, Pete Townsend, also thinks that the orchestrations
that she has done are really fantastic, so as an orchestrator
she's really done wonderful stuff with some of the early tunes,
like Both Sides, Now, for instance. Beautiful, beautiful arrangement,
it's very, very moving.
Martin: Right,
I wanted to ask you another question about the current development
to which you might know an answer. Back in the 70s and in the
early 80s is was common that albums and singles of progressive
rock bands entered the charts. Today, this seems almost impossible
and even the bigger bands sell only fractional parts of what
they used to sell about 15 to 20 years ago. How do you feel
about this? Is the public taste in music going down the drain
completely or what do you think is the reason for it?
Steve: Well, all people are buying DVDs and maybe more
people are buying washing machines rather than music. So the
aim is, I think it's on the musicians to make their work really
exceptional to stand up in the crowd in a market place which
is diminishing – diminishing for ALL musicians. Music
obviously is not as important to people as it once was. But
it does mean the same that the medium itself is not that important.
When people were first publishing books, you could have books
that were phenomenally successful when there weren't that many
books being published. And these works became the classics,
went to sell fantastically well at one time. Now it's changed,
of course, because there are so many mediums to receive the
printed word as there are mediums to receive music, you know
– music as an adjunct, as an appending to films, of course.
They are much more interested in film than they are in music.
It seems that the people want the images to be laid down in
front of them in a visual way and that is fine because that
is in the nature of the young audience which is hungry for all
forms of entertainment. But where we go from here, I don't know.
I know that I love music and trust in music and maybe in the
future I might be doing film work, but I'll have to queue up
with the rest, you know, half of the rest of Genesis is doing
film work – very difficult. There is selling-out room,
and John Williams is selling out the rest of it, so I'm waiting
to see what happens in that way. You know, I just think about
Miles Davis, I can't think of a single movie that used Miles
Davis, maybe there was something. But it means that in the end,
all the music that I've done will be out there on records. One
day I shall pop my clogs and I won't be around alive anymore,
and if someone wants to use that music at some point for something,
then that's fine. Something will creep in somewhere, I'm sure,
because I've made so many albums. Something will get through
at some point, it doesn't really matter 'cause I really love
what I do now. It's what we do now what really matters.
Martin: Do
you already know what you're going to do next?
Steve: Well, I've been making an album that's a tribute
to Andres Segovia, so it's an album full of a kind of guitar
pieces that most people would think you would need two guitars
to play these pieces but it's done on one guitar, so it's a
bit like, perhaps the most difficult stuff imaginable, but I
don't do it just because it is difficult. I do it because it
is beautiful and it's balanced and it's eloquent and it's music
that moved me very, very much when I was very, very young. So
much of it is Bach, it's six pieces of Bach, William Byrd...
Martin: Well,
that sounds interesting. Oh, I guess our time is over by now.
Steve: I think, unfortunately I have to...
Martin: By the way, I didn't ask you anything
about Genesis and I did not want to ask you anything about a
possible reunion, even though I am a big fan....
Steve: I'm afraid there's no news at the moment.
I'll let you know when there's a concrete possibility, but at
the moment there's nothing concrete. We're all going separate
ways and trying not to worry too much about the past.
Martin: Yeah, and the question remains whether
a possible reunion would somehow spoil the magic of the old
times...
Steve: Well, that's right... It's like “Who
are all these old guys on stage? We'd thought they'd look nineteen!”
Martin: ...and Peter Gabriel without any costumes...
Steve: That's right, I don't know, maybe he
could buy us some new costumes.
Martin: Well, he doesn't need any for the “old
man” in The Musical Box nowadays, I think.
Steve: Well yeah, we're all old men now...
and I try it, really.
Martin: But as long as you stay young inside...
Steve: That's the idea, yeah, I think that's
it.
Martin: Thank you very, very much for your
time and see you on tour. We're going to watch your concert
on October 7th in Melle, Germany. It was a pleasure talking
to you.
Steve: Yes, you too, Martin.
Martin: Keep up the good work!
Steve: Thank you very much!
